Will This Be on the Test? Transcripts
This is an automatic transcription. It's...not great.
Hi, everybody, and welcome to Will This Be On the Test? I'm Maddie.
And we're here today to talk about some of the things we may or may not have learned in school. And if we did learn them, we either learned them wrong or we only learned them in part.
Yeah. So and it's just coming off of like our Christmas Eve break thing. Did you have a good time?
I mostly did. We had our sewer system backup while I was on break, and I lost almost a whole day to that. And then I was really sick yesterday. And on top of all of that I had to go apply for a car loan, which was really stressful. And I just now saw some of the paperwork I needed to turn in with the loan application sitting on my desk.
So first thing in the morning, I'm running up to the bank and going to give my best sad face and hope that they will let me add that without running my credit a second time because I can't have them do that.
Well. I got a copy of Super Smash Brothers for the Nintendo 64 And I really happy about it.
Yeah, that was really exciting. I got a huggle which I have wanted for a really long time. It's basically this giant Sherpa really fuzzy hoodie, but it's oversized so you can kind of curl up on it. It's like a Snuggie that won't drag under your feet.
Yeah, it's it's like a fancy Snuggie
we have like 30 Snuggies, though we
love them. We do. It's like they're perfect for lazy people like us who also want to be on the computer.
We are super cool human beings the coolest but it's been it's been a good The thing is, I'm used to having like two weeks off from my previous teaching life so it was an adjustment going down to just one but I know a lot of people don't have that luck, kind of like you.
I had a single day off in the middle of the week,
which we spent traveling we drove two hours One Direction did stuff with my family two hours back. He's a trooper though. Like,
what do you mean? I'm a trooper, I just I fell asleep in the car on the way there and the way back. I am like the best baby
He made lemon bars for my family that went over really well. And as he always does, he made friends with the toddlers that were there. I didn't even like do
anything. They just came up to me and started playing with me. I've got like an aura. It's weird. They might have thought I was Santa. Haven't you had a kid ask you that before they have and you were in your 20s? About point? Yeah, now I'm just getting jollier and like, I'm not gray yet, but it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen.
I'm going gray. I'm going gray real fast. Maybe you're going gray, but you just have such a light hair to begin with. You don't notice it? Maybe? Well, today, we're talking about two very different topics. Austin is going first because I went first last week. Yeah, I gotta go first this time. Okay.
This is just something that I was kind of thinking about randomly. And then I started looking into it more and more. And it's about the Comics Code Authority.
I don't know what that means. My guess is it has to do with the seven words. You can't say on stage that George Carlin it's
so much more than that. So it's basically for 50 years on the front of every comic book there was this little stamp that said approved by the comic Code Authority. And it was just on there and I didn't know what it was. And then I started looking into what it was and it is nuts. Oh, it was a voluntary censorship that the comics industry underwent for 50 years. It started in 1954.
So to 2004
Yeah, it's nutty. So it kind of started with you know, comic books were very popular after World War Two, like there was multiple hundreds of millions of comic books were sold every year in the United States. They were a big deal. They were like popular, easy to access. Everyone had them, you could get them at any store. They were great. But in 1954, a psychiatrist Frederic wertham, published a book called seduction of the innocent. He proposed that crime comics, which by the way, True Crime comic books for a huge deal, and like anything deal with crime or horror, were way more Popular than superheroes back in the day,
kind of like the radio shows back then there are whole podcasts that are just those old radio shows. And they're so cool.
Yeah, it's, they were neat. They were like every adults read comic books. Everyone loved them. And there was like, it wasn't just superheroes like it is now. And he thought that those those kind of comic books encouraged violence, sex, drug use, and other adult fare in children. He called the scenes injury to the eye.
So like people think about video games now,
almost exactly what people think about video games. Now, in his book, he proposed that Batman and Robin were gay partners.
Oh, that's where that comes from. Yeah. Looks like
he got that from interviews with a gay couple. Who thought that? That was it. That was his entire evidence. There was one gay couple who thought that Batman and Robin were gay. And so but he also said that there were bondage themes and Wonder Woman, which was initially denied but we found out later that yes, the creator of Wonder Woman did have tons of bondage themes and Wonder Woman
is that the lasso of truth you Yeah,
also she'd lose her powers and she was tied up. So she was very frequently tied up in early issues. He also said that Wonder Woman was also a lesbian because she was strong and independent.
I mean, all strong, independent women. Yes. Be we still have that in the world today to people. Men, let's be honest. Oh, well, she didn't want to date me. So she must be a lesbian. Oh, she works as a carpenter must be a lesbian. Maybe she's just better with a drill than you are. Maybe
also that Superman was both an American and a fascist.
I mean, he technically wasn't American. He was Kryptonian
Superman's an illegal immigrant
and yet, and yet, and yet,
he also went after like the retailers who would sell these comic books next to knives and air rifles to further corrupt the youth. His evidence was mostly anecdotal. He cherry picked his findings. He outright lied about things. And he had pictures from comic books in this book. There was one where Captain Marvel didn't have his head. And they're talking about how this to Captain figure in this comic book, he had spilled invisible invisibility potion on his head that was from the comic book, but he didn't know he was just a decapitated, horrific monster and that the character known as the Blue Beetle was a Kafka esque nightmare, when in fact, he was just a guy with a beetle themed suit of armor.
And this guy's a psychiatrist psychiatry, which we still have doctors doing that today, especially when they're not medical doctors, they don't bother to mention that when they're talking about vaccines or whatever, or when they're, you know, blossom.
Yeah. Actually, a another psychiatrist did a study of his book in 2012, and just found out that everything was wrong. Like, he lied about things he just like, it was a very small sample size, and he didn't report all of his findings. He only reported his findings that supported his claim that these were corrupting the youth and all of that stuff.
This is why we have the peer review process, which if it existed, then probably wasn't Well vetted
No, it wasn't. But the thing is it even if it wasn't well vetted, it was a best selling book. Oh, of course it was this it took off like there were mothers groups screaming. It was a big deal. A senator estus Kefauver, kefir, kefir,
Unknown Speaker 7:18
Okay. FVR I fall away. And Senator asshole from Tennessee, form the Senate subcommittee on juvenile delinquency. Because of the outrage over this book. There were two hearings, one on April 21 of 1954. And the second on June 4 of 1954, in which they brought in that doctor who wrote the seduction of the innocent, and several comic books, publishers to talk about comic books. I will also note that this was around the time of the Red Scare. Yeah, I was about to say. So these comic book publishers were well aware that Senate Committees could in fact, ruin your entire career. Yeah, it's
that whole idea of they can't fire all of
Oh, yes, they can. Yeah, they can. So they were acutely aware that Oh, not only can they do something about this, they can do something completely awful about this and ruin everybody's lives. So they decided they were going to self censor, that was something which they created the Comics Code Authority. It's similar to the NPA, which is our move our movie ratings and the video game ratings, which by the way, movie ratings, Video game ratings are private and completely voluntary by the publishers. There is no law about any of these things.
Yeah, yeah, I think there are like, they have specific regulations in the ratings, but it's voluntary to opt in to them. Isn't that right?
It's completely voluntary. There's no oversight of it. All of this is just something someone decided to do as a good idea. 50 years ago, it has not really been updated or changed. Its I think that's nuts. So you want to hear some of these codes they put in place?
I do. All right.
Most of them are related to crime and violence, but some of them are very much a product of the 50s.
He has something printed off Something off
because it's like a page of these things I'm just going to do the highlights. Crime shall never be presented in such a way as to create sympathy for for the criminal to promote the distress the forces of law and justice or inspire others with desires to imitate criminals.
That's kind of why a lot of books get censored even in schools today.
So immediately you cannot make a comic book of Les Miserables. Yeah, it's like he stole a loaf of bread. Well, too bad. You cannot have sympathy for this criminal. And also, just there was in no way wrong
job there is one of the most fascinating
characters. If crime is depicted, it shall be a sort of an unpleasant activity. Policemen, judges, government officials, and respected institutions shall never be presented in such a way to create disrespect for established authority. Also, this meant that you could not do anything related to race, anything related to just corrupt politicians, or even though it was going on at the time they weren't talking about it. Like always of the sex abuse in the church. You couldn't go after that respected institution and a comic book. No comic or magazine shall use the words horror or terror in its title. Okay? Which what scenes dealing with or instruments associated with the Walking Dead torture, vampires and vampirism, ghouls, cannibalism and werewolf ism are prohibited
yet back then all movies were exactly that.
Yes, but these were comic books and they were corrupting the kids so we had to get rid of all of it. There's no profanity or vulgarity, no nudity in any form that could be no nudity or anything even related to nudity or females shall be drawn realistically without exaggeration of any physical qualities. suggestive and salacious illustrations or suggestive posture is unacceptable. So if you're looking at all these comic books from back in the 50s that's why everyone is this super boxy, like minimalist pose, you can tell that they were freaked out by this and we're trying to not have anything that could be remotely suggestive.
I'm not saying that the censorship part of that was right. But I do kind of wish we had left in the whole don't draw women solia sex objects that
they were still solely as sex objects, but just the way this has been enforced was very patchy and sexual perversion, or any inference to the same is strictly forbidden. So by this all LGBT q plus whatever content was banned from comic books,
until 1994 92,004 ish, they changed
it a few times. It wasn't until 1989 that they allowed even like, the insinuation that someone was gay in a comic book.
And I kind of shudder to think how that would have been handled in the 90s by comics, too.
Yep, here we go. Also, rape scenes and sexual abnormalities are unacceptable. I get that. So that was the code. It also there was one comic book company that this completely shut down. It's almost like it was specifically targeting them, which it kind of was because their comic books. It was entertaining comments or EC comics, which is I guess, entertaining comics, comics, etc. Their best sellers were crime suspense stories, the vault of horror and Tales from the Crypt, which was hosted by a ghoul. Yeah, so all of their best sellers were immediately shut down by this code. The only other remotely profitable thing was mad, which used to be a comic book. But they changed it to a magazine to avoid this code, because this was completely voluntary. And if they weren't a comic book, air quotes, they didn't have to follow it. So Mad Magazine was started so they can just avoid all of this disaster. Here's a great example from early in the comics code about how this became problematic. ec comics was denied the approval to publish a story called eye for an eye because the main character was black. So they decided to reply with something that they published before the code it was called Judgment Day, where the big twist at the end it's revealed that the astronaut character was in fact black. It was again denied because they The main character was black. However, EC comics then threatened to go to the press about this. So they relented and allowed it to be published.
And the only thing wrong in there was that their main character was black. That was the exactly where he's a good guy. He was the good guy was black.
She was why that was being denied.
Guys, keep in mind, this is not that long ago in the grand scheme. Yeah,
this was in 1950. The 1950s.
Yeah, you might have parents that were alive then. Yeah. So you might be you might have been alive. But we don't want to assume that everybody who listens to us is young.
Yeah. It's like you could have been. Yeah, I mean, I mean, my grandparents love to listen to our podcast. In fact, they gave it five star reviews over Christmas.
We only help Whoa, bad. We only have one person set us up during our break.
There were so many phones left on tables. We got so many good reviews.
I did not go in and write a reply
to that. They even eliminated slang and colloquialism because it's There was a corrupting factor with children the code forced comics to become a juvenile medium. Because what content was allowed was so far below g rated this was like happy bunnies, the absolute of milk toast, juvenile form of literature. And that's why the comic books became all superheroes and stuff for kids because they could not do anything else.
Milk toast good vocabulary word.
Yeah, I think it's colloquialisms so I shouldn't be allowed to use it.
It's too fancy to be a colloquialism. Yeah,
however, that doesn't mean they didn't have ways of getting around us. Of course, here's one of my favorites. First of all, they didn't have to make some changes, Batman actually had to be deputized by Commissioner Gordon, so he would stop breaking the law with his vigilante justice. And also Batman was no longer allowed to have a romantic relationship with Catwoman because she was a criminal. So Catwoman actually disappeared for a decade or two. This is the fun way to get around it though. Because you know, how did there are no vampires allowed? Well, there was morbius, the living vampire from Spider Man He is as Dracula as you can get pale skin he flies around. He's got fangs got flowing dark hair, red eyes. He was just bitten by a radioactive vampire bat, much like Spider Man and was going around thirsting for blood at night, but he was not a vampire.
That's worse than a vampire though.
Yeah. So they were using their imagination to get vampires into these stories without having vampires DC had Zoo them bees, not zombies, even though they were clearly the walking dead. But these aren't zombies. These words do them bees, and they're very different.
Zoo them bees, what are they different?
They're called zombies. And of course, there were mutants that were hairy wolf beasts that would go feral, but they were not werewolves. They were mutants.
Unknown Speaker 15:43
so they're all these ways of getting around it. And just eventually they did chat try to change the code. specifically because of Stan Lee and Marvel Comics. The United States health department came to him asking if they could do a spider man, call about drug abuse, they were kind of a PSA thing. And they had it in which there was Spider Man was dealing with someone who, and he was a heroin user, and there was talking about the dangers of drug abuse. The comics codes authority denied this story, Marvel published it anyway.
Do you know why it was denied? Because in my head, it's because he tried to help them and not just send them to jail and
a crime was depicted. But there was no immediate consequences.
So it's exactly that. Yeah, he wasn't treated like a criminal. He was treated like a person, he
was treated like a person. So it was the night they published it anyway. And they said, it's like, the government wanted us to do this. Are you gonna stand in our way? And they said, No, but you're not allowed to do this again. And Marvel promise to never do that again. But they did change the code. And more specifically, they changed it to allow literary figures like Dracula and Frankenstein, who were not previously allowed and all of these horror stories from Edgar Allan Poe, because it's like, oh, yeah, kids are reading about this in school. So maybe it's not crafting the kids as much
or we should just ban all of it. And there only allowed to read Paddington Bear from now on.
Yeah. And of course, they started to loosen the like, you know, thing things could be sexier in comics, mostly because of the changing culture.
Can you hear my IRA I can. I don't mind that there are sexy things in comic books. That's not it. It is the way that they depict women as nothing but a pair of tickets that are there for the entertainment of the men, even if they themselves are heroic. They're like, your boobs matter more than the good things you're doing.
Still those zombies, so we had to continue with the zombies. And of course, anything related homosexuality, still not okay, but this did open the door for a couple of superheroes namely blade because Dracula was allowed and Dracula made other vampires because blade fought vampire Dracula one time. All of these other vampires were just like, you know, made by Dracula, so blade was going around fat fighting vampires that were just the most tangentially related to Dracula, and Marvel could get away with vampires because Dracula existed and made more vampires. It was crazy. And of course, even though LGBT content was banned still, they had some very subtle characters like there was a character in Alpha Flight, which is the Canadian version of The Avengers in Marvel named north star who the entire time the Creator, the writer of this was working on it. Northstar was gay. He was written as a gay character originally, but they just never addressed it. And he like never got married or did anything with other men, but he was just a gay character. It was like a super secret gay character that nobody knew about. Oh, I forgot about this. Also, Stanley, he was recalling during this time, he was censored for having a puff of smoke from a gun that was too violent. So he needed to make that puff of smoke from the gun smaller. So it would pass the Code Authority it just so very arbitrary stupid rules about all of this
stuff. Yeah, we have that kind of stuff in schools to like, for a long time. There was kind of this in some places and actually some places it was a recommendation that still happens if a student writes a violent story, but it's in third person, it's okay. If they write it in first person, we have to suspect that they are somehow dangerous or planning on self harming depending on the nature.
Oh, that is so wise.
Yeah. And yet we are trying to teach them first versus third person and like, yeah, there are red flags that you should look out for. But it doesn't necessarily mean it when you're writing fiction. It doesn't mean I
also, I should note this, Texas and Oklahoma did pass comic book banning laws course California tried to, but it was deemed unconstitutional. So Texas and Oklahoma banned comic books because of you know, the children. Well, someone please think of the children. After they loosen those standards. There's a big rush of independent comic books that were being published. And things changed mainly because they stopped selling comic books as children's stuff and they stop using the code and no one cared anymore. All these independent publishers were just directly Selling comic books to comic book stores who would sell look at people there was no longer this like middleman distribution system, which is what the comics authority depended on to actually work. By this time there are only four publishers doing the Comics Code Authority and the it was Marvel, DC, Archie and Harvey comics. Archie has pretty much stuck with that for the most part, though, that they've gotten a lot more liberal in the last few years. But they've always been at the end of the day reasonably wholesome at least not but now we have Riverdale, we have Riverdale, which we get all of the horny teenagers out of that comic and none of the TV. And of course, Harvey you may not know this, but they're responsible for Casper, the friendly ghost, Richie Rich all of those
which are super sad and a little scary and actuality. They're terrifying. But
so they're willing to sell using it and Archie was fine with it. Marvel was kind of okay with it. They didn't want to change anything because they were already carefully skirting the rules anyway and did want to have a crack down Harvey said was open to a change but they didn't want it to be overly liberal DC was the only one pushing to change it mostly because it's like no one cares anymore. Why are we doing this? So they really loosened up the wording of these rules Stanley was DC right Stanley was Marvel Really? Yeah. Around this time by DC was trying to make Batman dark again Ah they were trying to get away from like the the Adam West style Batman and into more of the Dark Knight style Batman
Do not Do not Do that Christian Bale ruin Batman.
Well, Christian Bale didn't ruin Batman. Ben Affleck ruined
Ben Affleck made it worse, but it was already ruined.
No no Ben Affleck run a Christian Bale was kind of good. I hated him. You have no taste.
I have plenty of taste. I like the original Batman movies back when they were actually dark and not when Maggie Gyllenhaal is about to break into song before she died.
I forgot about that. So of course, they're saying that all of these restrictions were crippling the industry which they were so they rewrote the guidelines again. They were more broad and they were more general statements and gave more editorial control to the comic book creators. But these were never released to the public. So we have no idea what these actually said. So that happened. They allowed gay people norstar came out, he came out in 1992. So yay, he was the first gay comic book character, the first openly gay, first openly gay character. Then, of course, in 2001, Marvel completely dropped the comic books code, nobody cared. And in 2011, DC dropped it, and it officially died. So 10 years later DC gave in even though I mean, it didn't really change what they do. They now rely on themselves to regulate content
that makes the most sense.
Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. Instead of relying on this like, you know, dinosaur from the 50s to tell you what you shouldn't shouldn't right because they were afraid they were afraid of being McCarthy
Yeah, I can't blame them for starting at know.
So that was the Comics Code Authority. The weird reason why comics went from something adult read to something juvenile to coming back to something adults read again now. We're little 50 year blip in graphic media. Yeah. So are you ready for some questions? Yeah. So these aren't like, I don't want answers to these questions. These are just questions of whether this will be on the test or not. Okay. Will the super over reduced Shadi study at that crippled industry be on the test?
Well, I'm going with this being a test in the literature class, and I think it would,
yeah, I think it would the seduction of the innocence.
They might not go too much into the actual things that are
looking this up that book, it's super hard to find, because he cited his sources and publishers realized oh, shit, he cited his sources, and they tore those out. And if you have a copy of seduction of the innocent with the citations, it's worth a shit ton of money.
You're rich guys, you rent you can donate it to us.
Well, the fact that movies and video game ratings kind of date back to this arbitrary self imposed results from that sad set said scam study be on the test?
No, because they might go home and tell their moms and then the teachers We'll get in trouble
Yeah, we'll Zoo them This Be On The Test
again basing this on the literature test. Yes.
Love Zoo them These will the fact that Mad Magazine became a magazine just to avoid all this bullshit beyond the test. Yeah. Well, will the kids know what Mad Magazine is anymore? I sure hope not. It wasn't very good. It's it was still around for a while it was
I felt it when I worked at the bookstore. I
think they're finally gone. Because I don't have them at the library. They're gone. I think they're just online now. Yeah. All right. So that was the Comics Code Authority. Wow. Okay. There was a lot to this. I just tried to like find the highlights that weren't to just boring. fires, you
know, whole episode just on Stanley.
He was a complicated guy and did a lot of good things and also some kind of shady thing. So yeah, he is a good he's a good history figure for this,
especially now the comic books and graphic novels are considered a valid teaching tool in a lot of language arts class. Oh, good. You have mixed feelings on that just like I do.
I do. There are lots of really Beautiful like graphic novels out there. Like American Born Chinese Mouse Mouse. watchmen is spectacular. I
can't see watchmen being used too much in schools though.
No, it can't be used in schools. But it is definitely literature.
Yeah, the hard line is finding what is literature what is not. And especially what the kids know, when you're pandering, like when your teachers know to dab, they know what you're doing. So finding that line between proof, being able to back up with the kids that know this is literature versus we're hip, like you were with it with the youth. What is up children, and then also just selling it to kids? Because I was I hated comic books. I liked the x men ones when I was little, but as I got older, I loved dense chapter books. I felt like I was like engaging and I felt like I was in literature. And I would not have felt that with graphic novels growing up. Even now I'm not a huge fan. I like the Buffy one. And I like The Walking Dead but even then they're not my go tues I prefer dense books without pictures. I find pictures. I prefer to imagine it. I would have been a hard sell.
See, I appreciate the art and some like there's one comic book I really love right now which I'm just gonna promote it for everyone. It's called Rat Queens. It's a bunch of very feminist d&d characters kind of going on adventures. It's really fun sponsor us Rat Queens sponsor us. I think it's Image Comics. So what do you have for us today?
Well, remember a few episodes ago, I started going on a rant about the bystander effect. So I made a joke about being upstander not a bystander. And you asked if that was a real thing. And of course, I got started on it.
Oh, yeah. There's so many things I say that result in accidental rants.
I figure if I'm going to start it, I might as well finish it. So I'm talking about the actual psychological bystander effect today.
Tell me about this bystander effect.
Well, the bystander effect is taught in schools both as a this is a rule that you should follow morality tale almost about and also lets us get kids in trouble for not intervening. And in any level of psychology class you will take if you took in high school you learned about the bystander effect that you learned in college you learned about the bystander effect.
Yeah, remember that like this very specific instance where someone was being killed on the street, and there were dozens of witnesses looking down out of their apartments, and they did nothing.
That's what you learned in psych class was a cyclone. I'm going to talk about that good. So the bystander effect, according to britannica.com is the quote inhibiting influence of the presence of others on a person's willingness to help someone in need. It doesn't matter if it's something as simple as a person being rude to a store clerk or a series as someone like you said, being murdered. It's totally dependent on the not just the presence, but the behavior of others around you, that causes the bystander effect. So you're talking about Kitty Genovese. If you took a psych class, you learn about Kitty Genovese. If you listen to True Crime podcasts, you learn about Kitty Genovese, so I'm not going to get heavily into her story because if you Want to hear about it? You've got so many opportunities, but I am going to give you the brief overview just in case you haven't so this makes sense. Kitty Genovese was a bartender who was followed home from work by a man named Winston Moseley on March 6, March 13 1964. She noticed him following her ran towards her building but he chased her down and stopped her with a hunting knife.
The cats that's a really inappropriate laugh, but the cats were being funny. Okay, I'm gonna be in a seriously
sorry blame Draco. So she's screaming Oh my god, he stopped me Help me so she is giving people around her if there are any all the information they need. I am being stabbed. I am in need of assistance. One of the neighbors actually yelled to let that girl alone well after that she got up and walked away. So some people would go follow her to see if she's okay somebody but she's walking she's fine and would walk away. So we do know at least one person has already interviewed. She makes her way to Towards the building got to a spot where no one can see her people did see Mosley drive off he came back 10 minutes later. There's some reports that say people saw him come back some that don't I kind of doubt anybody but admit to it that Oh yeah, some leave after stabbing the girls when I saw him come back and didn't do anything. He ultimately finds her in a hallway because she couldn't get into her door she couldn't. There was a lock that she couldn't open for some reason, stopped her multiple times, then raped her, then stole all the money she had on her. This whole thing lasted about 30 minutes so about 230 in the morning till about three in the morning. She was later found by a neighbor named Sophia Farrar, who helped her as she was bleeding to death and if I remember correctly screamed for help another person who intervenes. She did not follow that to the bystander effect possibly because she was the only one there and possibly because she had a previous relationship with the victim whether or not that was close even just a high in the hallway, you recognize them, you're probably more likely to intervene. The police did not show up for a very long time and kitty just He's bled to death in the ambulance. So she lived through all of this and live for a good while afterwards. And because the police didn't show she died, she may be would have loved to stabbed a lot. So who knows. So the New York Times gets the story. And this is the story that's taught in psychology class, emphasis on the word story. This is where we get the bystander effect or Genovese syndrome from it was titled 37, who saw murder didn't call police then amended to 38. So ultimately, they said 38 people saw a murder saw they use that word, and didn't call the police. There is zero evidence that anybody saw the murder white. They even quoted, one person is saying they just didn't want to get involved. And this whole thing not focused not on the actions or inactions of individuals but on the effect that living an urban area has on one's morality. Now, you remember the Boston bombing and people running towards it instead of away from it. That should kind of give you a good indication of what urban life actually does to somebody.
Some of the least empathetic, least caring people I've ever met, come from, like, small rural communities where it's like, well, I don't know this person, why would I help them? That is not that is definitely a country thing.
Yeah, so the whole story is very sad, but it's also untrue. What we are taught to this day in psychology classes, and to children to tell them to not be a bad person is on true
actually, it even has like a little bit of effect in like other classes because my EMT classes they told us if you're ever like on the scene, and you're not working, you direct someone very specifically to call 911. I actually talked about that don't shout it you just say you with the hat call 911.
I get to that at the end of this. In fact, the same year that the story went out a competing news organization found out the entire truth but was too afraid to confront the times because they were the biggest paper. There are records of police calls, but the 911 system was not implemented for until four years after this. So the actual information from the calls is a little fuzzy and the police didn't go they had the information and made a choice. For anybody. The bystander right now,
it's the NYPD.
We don't know if they were ignored or put as a low priority one person to test that their father called the police to say a woman had been beaten up and locked away, which was true and may it contribute to the lack or slow response because like, Oh, she got up, she's fine. He's a beaten up and not stabbed repeatedly. Because you know, you probably can't see that from far away even after a hunting knife. Another witness called a friend and asked, What should I do? I see a girl getting beaten up and the friends like all know, so he calls another friend. I see a girl getting beaten up. What should I do? I don't know. Let me call another friend. So that second friend called someone else, like I was like, Fuck you. I'm calling the cops. So he did. That was when the police arrived after this third party called the police after a guy called a friend who called a friend to ask what do you do when someone being stabbed to death
you call the police. I had a time where I was bleeding pretty badly. And I texted you and asked at what point should I go to the doctor? I wasn't gonna die worse, I was going to get a scar. And I think I remember my response being I think it's at the point where you're texting me to see if you need to go to the doctor.
It was one of those condensation on the table situations with the glass slides, and I made the mistake of catching it. And it was a champagne glass and it just shattered in my hand and it was only my finger. Thankfully, doctor was really cute though. So the police arrived two hours after she was being stabbed. This poor woman is bleeding to death for two hours and she died. Probably because of that. Fast forward to 2007. The magazine American psychologist published that there is no evidence of the bystander effect in any large way anyway, in the Kitty Genovese case, they say, Yeah, they're probably bystanders who didn't do anything. But there is hard evidence that it was not zero. We still teach this despite psychologist saying hey, man We don't teach this as a fact.
So this is basically a psychologist read a headline, and then decided, yeah, that sounds right.
Kind of like your psychiatrist reading a comic book and getting the clamped.
Okay, another great vocabulary word verklempt.
I think it's verklempt. I don't know I
we've been watching the marvelous, Mrs. Mazal. Yeah, and it's affecting our vocabulary
that said there are actual studies related to Kitty Genovese that are about the bystander effect. 10 days after her murder psychologists john darlie and bibble a ton. I think it's pronounced they're both psychologists were having lunch and just discussing the case, and they decided to see if they could explain or replicate the claim that 38 people witnessed the murder and had not intervened. They both work at a university. They have lots of resources. They began by pairing students with another person which is a confederate or a partner of the psychologists. They do not tell the students that this is a confederate of theirs, then had them Converse via an intercom. Some students were told that it was a one on one call conversation, some were told that there were three participants. Some were told that there were six participants, but only one person could talk. At the same time. The Confederate tells them early on that they have a seizure disorder and then proceeds to have a seizure towards the end of the conversation. And in that seizure, they actually say I am in need of assistance, and I'm about to die if I do not get better systems. In the case where students were told it was a one on one conversation 85% went to help meaning 15% did not when they believe there were three people so them to others 62% went for help. And when they believe that there were six only 31% went for help. This is called diffusion of responsibility. We're in participants believe that others are involved and therefore their own personal responsibility is less someone else will do it. Conversely, a leaders to be done by a different guy named Urban Studies show that people are more likely to offer assistance when in a group if someone else is also doing so they found that young children were as likely to help in pairs as adults. But they were more likely to discuss their fears, expectations and to create a plan ahead of time than the adults, the adults. Let's go help the kids like, I am nervous about this. How do we handle this situation? Okay, let's go handle it. Wow, kids, kids are much more responsible than seven, ages six and seven. It's like, okay,
there's a problem. Here's a plan. Are you worried? Me too? Let's go.
People of all ages are more willing to help if there is someone else also willing to help. Which brings me into the next study. Darlene from the original study did two more in which he found other reasons for inaction. One is that they look for people to behave in a certain way. So if you are in a situation you look around to see how others react, particularly those you consider in charge, but you also look at your peers. He did this by having a room filled with smoke and having their Confederates react in different ways. If the Confederates were calm, people did not go for help. If the Confederates panic, people went for help. This is called pluralistic ignorance whereas We see another calm reaction as a sign that nothing bad is happening.
This has happened to me. Uh huh. In high school, we were at an orchestra competition and we were playing one of our pieces. And a fire fire alarm goes off. Uh huh. We thought for a moment and we look our director and she's, she keeps going. So we keep playing. There was an actual fire. The building was evacuated. We just kept playing. It's like we could have died.
Yeah, I actually mentioned that here. It's worth noting that teachers and parents are trained to remain calm, even in situations of panic and hope that that will rub off on the adult on the children. Here's the problem, though. You see two people getting into a fistfight and you react calmly and walk away. That's what your kids internalize. As a teacher, you see two kids getting into a fistfight and don't immediately intervene, or this is the way we actually have to handle it. You actually do intervene, but then you just go with something a very calm, we'll talk about this later or let's get back to work. The kids are less are going to be less likely to intervene because You have modeled that your responses, just say, don't do that. Now the fact is the teachers can't do more than that without becoming across as the irrational one getting in trouble themselves or breaking privacy rules because the other kids can't know how you're handling the situation. But it does make me think maybe teachers should be given a little more leeway in telling the kids you are being an absolute tool right now. I expect you to stop at this moment or there will be real consequences. I saw a few fistfights I stepped in the middle of fistfights regularly do not do that. It's a bad choice. I was lucky I never got punched but especially if you're shorter than the people involved, which I was in one of these occasions are your heads right at shovin level you
shouldn't do that.
Yeah, I mostly startled them. One of the kids like the kids, they were they were best friends. They didn't want to be fighting in the first place.
You know, it's the best thing I've seen them diffusing those is confusing them out of it with like just like shouting out nonsense phrases or doing something really bizarre next to them. They will stop and like what is going on? This kind of back away.
Yeah, and I can't let this particular point go by without mentioning the police officer at Stoneman Douglas. He is the authority figure who sets the tone for how to react. And his way to do it was to hide and then direct others to do the same. So they're like, okay, authority figure, this is what we're doing. Now, in the case of kids. Yeah, hiding might not be the worst running is the best. But he directed other people who should have been in authority to do that. But he was the expert on the scene. So I'm still angry about that. And this is what I tried to drive to my students is that the powers don't always know best, you should not always emulate them, you have to decide for yourself. Is this a situation where they are having the appropriate response? What should I do instead? I even told them, if you think I'm behaving and appropriately Just tell me if you think I'm wrong about something just telling me and then also worked on the skills of how do you stand up to an authority figure? Because I wasn't I was an easy one. I actually really enjoyed my kids. And I was in a place where I could be like, Okay, I understand where you're coming from, but I don't like the way you approach With that, so let's figure out the best way to do that. And they were generally really receptive. Obviously, with kids who got annoyed, I always, but sometimes get annoyed. But that's an important thing. drive home is just because they're an authority doesn't always mean they're right. And I am not a fan of kids should always follow what you say this fact
that authority figures aren't always right goes directly in the face of the Comics Code Authority
Unknown Speaker 40:21
You are knocking, I'm afraid but you're not going to be allowed to be published with that attitude.
Then we have our third study, which was also performed by darlie. This time with a psychologist named Daniel besten at Princeton, where he had students walk across campus to give a talk to the group. These were seminary students, meaning that their whole study system was rooted in the belief that you love your neighbor. Right? Right. That's what seminary is. It's, you know, religion.
Unknown Speaker 40:47
Okay. Should I be
a proud in two different factors. One is that you've got a lot of time to get across campus. One is that you are late. They had a confederate act as if he was in distressed slumped over in pain in a tunnel that they would have to go through it. They were late, only 10% of the seminary students stopped to help future theologians and ministers. 10% stopped. There's a story,
a very important story about a Samaritan that they just ignoring because they're in a hurry.
That's the exact story. When they were not late more than 60% stop, that still leaves 40% that didn't, but don't My God. Now there is something I get into a little bit later they think might have contributed to that. But let's remember they're on a college campus. What do college kids do
the sex and the drugs
and the drinking too much. They probably have seen several drunk kids just slumped over waiting for it to go off. So that's part of it is that they might just look over be like, he just looks strong can keep going, which really, you can't blame them for too much. I didn't watch a similar study to this insight class. Although with all the stuff I'm learning for this podcast, I question the veracity of it, where they did this same study, but how to be on a city street with no students involved as a city street with the same Confederate in once case. He was wearing a suit. In one case, he was made to look homeless and significantly more people stopped when he was in a suit. But that also goes back to what is being taught, oh, this whole people are drunkards and drug addicts and going to enter just doing this to rob you. So it's also a learned behavior. In the 90s bystandard. Education began entering schools. One of the things that focused on in the 90s was the psychology of being a bystander versus an altruist which is the word they use for helper and most of these studies, I will not use the word upstander. I think it's insulting to everyone's intelligence. Yes, I said it. They can understand the word altruist they can understand helper upstander you don't gotta be cute.
Yeah, I will tell you as as as a former student, every time something got cute, I broke out my book and started reading.
Yeah, when it gets cute, they're not gonna buy into it. And this is a serious issue.
If you present it as a serious issue. It's like, Yeah, do this people could die if you don't. It's
like, Oh, shit. Also, it's like, would you rather be an upstander or an altruist
I'd rather be neither those both sides. But out of the two altruist,
yeah, it makes you sound important. So they went in from the perspective of opening the conversation about the kids feared for guarding being a bystander, because that's where it ultimately comes from. If I'm the one who calls maybe they'll come from me, if I step in, maybe they'll come from me, it comes from fear. So why don't kids help even if they want to, because of the bystander effect? So they taught them to talk about their fears. They taught them about the diffusion of responsibility, and the openness what was the Word, the ignorance one, which I'll get back to the vocabulary here in a little bit. They go into the psychology, even john darlie, who formed the earliest studies said it was essential to destroy the idea that all people seem to have about themselves that they will always do the right thing. People look at these situations and go, Oh, I would have run into help. Well, I would have stopped the fight. Well, I would have stopped that person from yelling at the clear, but in reality, they don't know how they'll react until the moment that's not just fight or flight that is also by Standard in order for that to be destroyed the idea of it and for them to have a realistic expectation, and for them to then get past the bystander effect and actually do the thing that they want to have done. They need to understand the reasons for their behavior. There is actual proof that those who attended lectures about bystander behaviors were less likely to be a bystander. So
it's an education piece. So it
is, it's not just saying be an upstander not a bystander and leaving it that it's like
everyone gets scared. This is terrifying. But it's like, do something about it.
Yeah, actually engaging with it. And we also would do things like show videos like what's the right thing to do? We never discussed why might you not have done it? Yeah. And especially if we do we make them share it out loud? And that's not fair either.
It's like it's easy to talk about, oh, you know, it's like I absolutely would have set up to that guy as an armchair quarterback. In reality, he's six foot seven. I'm not gonna stand up to that guy. And it's the
same way people treat people in domestic violence situations. Well, I would just stand up to them. You're not living everyday and nobody has gone through with these people and help them understand how you end up in these relationships because we don't teach sex ed in school. But that's a whole other issue.
Oh my god combined the Comics Code sex ed 100 ways the 50s are still fucking up America.
Yeah. So we not only tell kids that they have to be an upstander because it's the right thing to do. We tell them they're a bad person if they're a bystander, which is so wrong.
There's lots of situations where it's fine to be a bystander like, let's say for instance, you don't know CPR. And there's someone Don't do it. Don't assume you can because you saw it in the movie.
Yeah, it's actually a really scary thing to do. Yeah, it is. I'm thankful I've never had to do it in reality because
like if you don't know you're doing the CPR. You can like breathe, you will break ribs doing CPR. Yeah, that's just a fat out. And also you're putting a lot of air into their stomach when you're in the breathing part, which I don't even know if they still teach that anymore. I haven't
done it comes and goes usually you're safe not doing it regardless. Yeah,
my heart going. You're also putting air in their stomach. So once you're done, they're going to throw up and then if they're not on their side, they're going to drown in their own vomit.
Also, don't do the hard thing, if you can tell. They've got a Good breath in a heartbeat going Yes. Because they're unconscious does not mean they need broken ribs. Yeah, here's the thing. It's you're not a bad person. If you don't stand up every single time, nobody does. Just do your best to do it now your understanding more try to do it.
No one can stand up every time.
And there is one important factor that never that always will be left out of the conversation. We talked about fear for oneself in it, but we do not talk about the fear for loved ones. And that is how the Holocaust happened. We talked about the bystander effect in reference to genocides in the Holocaust all the time. And we talked about how these were bad people, inherently evil people. Now if somebody come up to you and said, either you turn in your next door neighbor, I will kill your children.
I am very sorry, next door neighbor, but I also hate children. But I would I would turn to my next door neighbor, if it was like, it's like if the options are them, or my family. I mean, that's
Yeah. And so that's also part of why people stood by and watch these horrific things happening. It's not that they were on board with it. They were told we're doing this and if you stop us, we're going to kill your family. Wouldn't you rather have a million people you don't know rather than these five people you love?
Oh God, like the worst version of the trolley problem.
Exactly. And so that's where these genocides happen. It's not because these are inherently evil people, it's because they're given an impossible choice, and they become bystanders out of necessity. We don't talk about that any of these studies, probably because there's no way to really replicate that without causing permanent damage to the people. Anyway, the fact is, we're all bystanders, and hopefully we're all altruists sometime. Even if you're the best person in the world who is Linda Miranda? You are not going to always be an altruist the
best person in the world is Chrissy taken? No, she's married to john legend the sexiest man alive.
Have you seen them? Miranda his wife that she is cool. She's like a lawyer and she bought she believes him around it's good.
Unknown Speaker 47:45
Oh my god. Okay,
way in people who is the better person Chrissy taken or living? Well, Maria.
Miranda. Yes, but let me have my competition. It's like we all will sometimes not stand up for the person who who is behind the desk boy, we must of us will not pull over to help the person who's got a stalled car. And this brings me to two other things that don't seem to be addressed in any part of the research, the knowledge that this may be a stage situation and actual training to be a bystander. I did several psych studies when I was in college sometimes because it was part of my actual site classroom because he got paid. So I knew I was in a psych study. When I did this, I would imagine most of the students except for maybe the seminary ones knew that they were in a psych class, they probably knew somewhere in the back of their head that the conversation they were having or the tests they were taking was not the actual study, if they had studied the Kitty Genovese study already, that could be in the back of their head, or they had done the one where you are giving electroshocks to somebody and a certain percentage people quote, killed them and the process that could be in the back of your head, you know, they're lying to you. So your reactions consciously or otherwise might be informed by the fact that you know that they are not actually studying you in the way that they say they are. Well, yeah, so if you're sitting in a room being told that the person that you're talking to has a seizure disorder, but you know, you're in a psych study, you might know that they're waiting to see if you react in a certain way, which automatically taints the evidence, even if your reaction is unconsciously biased.
So basically, like I'm watching an action movie, and suddenly Robert Redford shows up as just this random guy who's like a CIA analyst. It's like, Oh, shit, Robert Redford's, the bad guy. And he always is, uh huh. I knew it. So it's kinda like that.
And then there's bystander training its course it's not called that but it is. It's especially real for women. But I'm sure men get it too. It's where you don't stop to help somebody because they must pose a risk to you even if they have not shown any evidence that they were
weak. Someone's hilar that but it's mostly a Oh, this isn't my business. I should just leave this alone.
Yeah. So don't stop to help installed car because they're probably hoping to hijack you. If you hear somebody screaming for help than an alley. They're just faking to put you into sex trafficking. Don't give money to a homeless person because they're just in it for the drugs don't give someone the Heimlich because they're just going to sue you for the broken ribs.
Actually, there's lots of states we are legally protected. And that are good samaritan laws where they can't do that
unless you're in medical fields often, because you're off the clock, and therefore you're not covered. It's a whole thing. So women are obviously more told this, because obviously everybody else is out to rape you every single person, especially if they're men. And then we also need to have a quick just talk about the training of people of color or in poor communities that are told to not call the police because the police can be as dangerous to them as the actual criminals.
And in some cases they are.
So there are cases where they hear the domestic violence happening. They might physically go intervene, but they're not going to call the cops because the cops are going to hear something about black men beating up they see a black man outside, they're going to arrest that guy. I'm not saying this is a universal cop thing, but it's statistically significant enough that people in these communities are afraid to call and then on top of that we have areas of high gang activity where being a bystander is safest for you and your family, letting it happen. Not getting involved. None of us has brought up in these studies, these outside effects. None of these things make someone evil. No matter what we tell these kids in our bystander versus up standard training, you are not an evil person. If you are not perfect all the time, you're an evil person, if you go out of your way, to let these things happen, or to cause them to happen, that's what makes you evil. letting these things happen from time to time, does not make you evil, but now you understand what's causing it and you can overcome it. I want to bring up one good way to not be a bystander, which is what you kind of alluded to earlier, hey, people take cues from others. They wait for that person and authority to tell them what to do. They don't have to know that someone's in authority or not. They're waiting for somebody to step in and say, I'm the boss now, and you're going to hop back and listen to me. People don't typically want to be bystanders. That's the evil people. People just don't know what to do. And they're looking for cues. So I received CPR and first aid training a few years ago. Not all teachers are required to do that, guys, we need to change that. That's not okay that not all teachers are accepted. To have that training,
I think that's a good thing for like most people to get like, as a part of a gym class for students or even just through your job, it's like, Hey, we're going to provide CPR and first aid training, because it's really important because sometimes like, it's a matter of minutes between life and death or permanent injury.
So if someone is visibly in need of assistance, and there's a group, all it may take is one person saying, I'm in charge. Now, they don't actually have to say those words. But it might help actually, if you are trained in first aid and CPR, you jumped in to help that person point to Someone in the crowd and say you are calling 911. If you're in a store situation, you can point to someone else and say, you are finding an employee if you and then you also might say, Does anybody else have training? Because they might have just frozen and not remembered awesome? Oh, should I do that? You should not be administering CPR and calling 911 by yourself unless you have no choice. Yeah, you take charge. You don't have to even if you don't have that training still take charge go out and say I'm in charge now you're calling 911 you're getting a store staff member. Does anybody here know CPR? Is
there a doctor in the house?
Yeah, it's like they just need someone to tell them what to do. So being a bystander is both a choice and not a choice. It is one of those really hard psychological things. It depends on your own experiences. For instance, one of the smoke studies was considered an outlier because one of the people in the study had actually lived through a fire and so he was not at all affected by the other people. He's like, fuck it. I'm getting help because he had lived through a fire I believe on a naval ship. Oh, damn. So he knew that yeah, these people are not reacting in a way that is correct in this situation.
Okay, I don't know a ton about the Navy or boats in general. But I do know that if there's a fire you like you drop what you're doing and deal with it because fires on boats are really bad.
fires in general. Not great.
No, but I'm boats their works, especially a Navy one because they're also you're on a boat full of explosives,
and other things that factor in or where you mentally are at the moment. So if you've already had a business and bad things happen, you might just freeze, you might not be able to process what's happening and how the others around you are behaving. People can though, in fact be trained to be altruistic, as we talked about earlier, they just need the correct kind of training that involves not just understanding the pain of others, which is what we kind of focus on as, as teachers, which is not all that matters. But also the psychology of you. If you're a bystander, you can stand there for a second and go, Okay, I'm standing here, there is someone yelling at a store clerk. There are other people in lines, I'm not responsible for stopping this, or other people, including the employee are not reacting, so I should not react. So there's diffusion of responsibility right there, which is the other people are here, and other people are not reacting, which is the pluralistic response thing. They're not reacting. So why shouldn't the bystander effect now that you know what, what it is? You can sit there and be a bystander and think, is this my responsibility? Why not? Is If your answer is because other people are around. That's not a reason. That's the bystander effect that is diffused. The responsibility is your answer as well. Nobody else seems freaked out that's pluralistic ignorance. And unless you are hyper aware of the situation and you know how this build would normally react, reacts the correct way. If you know that you are not reacting because of a legitimate fear, that's a different story.
Okay, I've got an important question for you. And it relates to comic books in Spider Man when spider man doesn't stop that, Robert, and could because it's not his responsibility. And then he goes on to kill Uncle Ben, that I'm assuming is, is that totalistic response the psychology of spider man? Was there someone else there? Yes. Someone said stop that thief and spider man said it's not my job.
So there's only one person there besides him. Yeah, that person for some reason is not close enough to stop the person themselves. That would not be either diffusion of responsibility or pluralistic effect, because there is the other person there is reacting in a way that says this is what he needs to do. There's only one other person than there and unless he said That's your job, not just that's not my job, that wouldn't be diffusion of responsibility.
So Spider Man was just an asshole. And that's,
that would likely be a fear response more than anything else. Especially if there's an indication that the person was armed. But this was Spider Man was the Spider Man yet? Yeah, I don't remember the stuff.
Oh, Okay, nevermind then. But still with great power comes great responsibility.
Yeah. And that goes back to that he's not evil. Now, though. He's not responsible for Ben's death. Those are two different things. Yes, he could have prevented it, potentially. But he also could have died in the process. Yeah, because let's say obviously, there are situations in which being a bystander is the best option. You witness something that could result in injury to you or another, if you intervened. It is okay to simply be a witness to a certain extent, obviously, should still find a way to call the cops or get help. But sometimes, if, if this person has a gun, and you can't find an escape at that moment, you're not the bad guy by not tackling him. You're not the bad guy. If you don't Jump into the middle of a fistfight. But if you see someone getting hurt in a way that you can stop without putting yourself or others in actual true risk, try to do something as often as you can you now understand diffusion of responsibility. While you think this isn't my problem, pluralistic ignorance, well, everybody else is doing this. So I'm going to do that two simple things like being late how this would inconvenience you. Honest to God, if you get to a job interview late or not at all, and you call and say, Sorry, there was someone who got hit by a car and I stopped and they say, well, screw you. We're not hiring you. You don't want to work there, or a lack of definite support from appear if you have someone else there who is not willing to go help with you, you probably are less likely to help. None of these are an excuse. You may have been trained to not intervene. That goes back to reading the situation. Am I actually in danger? What can I do that is the most effective and safe way to help you now have the power to ask why am I not acting? And if your answer turns out to be it's just inconvenient. It's not my responsibility. Nobody else is reacting or something like that. You now are making a choice. You're not just having a psychological reaction. So choose wisely. And that's the bystander effect.
That was a lot.
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Alright, so here your question. All right, will the terms diffusion of responsibility and pluralistic ignorance beyond the test? Yes. Will the fact that Kitty Genovese was not totally surrounded by bystanders beyond the test?
I'm going to say no, in most classes, but this is gonna be somewhere it's like, actually,
yeah, and that's my thing. When your true crime podcast if they claim that there were no altruists, give them an email, like, Hey, listen to this amazing podcast or just look at American psychologist will the fact that no one is a bystander or an altruist all the time be on the test?
Yes. Trying to get some complicated things with with a lot of like weird subtleties.
Now, but if we're talking about a test that's just about behavior in schools at an elementary and middle school grades level,
oh no, that will not be up.
has to be a good person all the time are there bad person there is no black and there is no gray will the fact that it is actually difficult to be an altruist all the time or at all be on the test know, because you and I both know we're fairly decent people most of the time I feel it's not always that good. It's always an easy choice. Like when we stop that lady from being rude behind that to the lady behind the counter. Or when I had a guy behind the counter, make a sexually aggressive comment towards me. I had a very hard time turning around and asking him to repeat himself. The first thing I thought of was my students, what would I I don't want to leave this guy here to say that to one of my students. And then I got into my card saw because I was so freaked out after standing up and doing the right thing.
Yeah, that was that was a nightmare.
I ended up on the phone with lawyers, not my lawyers,
lawyers for that organization.
Yeah. Because I called them and reported it and they they also asked Were you with somebody said no, it's like, okay, some bystander stood called us. So instead what they saw.
So another good thing, if you will Like someone sexually harassing someone or any of the situations, report it because those those report even just reporting it does make a difference.
Yeah, they actually like somebody else already called. So we have information from an outsider about is helpful. I'm sitting there I felt so bad they were so freaked out. I'm like sobbing like, are you physically I'm like, I'm fine. I'm just a little overwhelmed. And this is all in the course of about an hour afterwards, I was sitting in my car the whole time terrified that this guy was going to find be nice. Doesn't matter what side of the counter you're on. Even if the person on the other side is being nasty. Don't sink to that level. Stand up for yourself. That's a different thing. But don't start yelling sexually aggressive comments at them. I was not being the kindest person at that moment. But it wasn't right. What happened if you see a car accident stop. It doesn't matter how minor of a car accident is they will need a witness. And if it was bad, even if you see them getting out and walking around, think of Kitty Genovese, they might not be okay. And if you're out in the middle of nowhere, it could be a while before the cop show up, keep them awake, talk to them, make sure they're okay make sure they make like they need someone to keep an eye on things like if their vehicle start smoking, they may not be in a place where they can be aware of that. When we got in our car accident, there were five cars there. Not a single one stopped and it was bad. So stop if you see a car accident, even if it's inconvenient to you, again, if somebody gets mad at you for being late after that. You don't want to hang out with them. You don't want to work with them. Yeah. So we had we touched some some weirdly like heavy stuff today. Yeah. The What have you learned about the bystander effect? Oh, God,
that the key Jeremy story was not entirely accurate.
Yeah, it doesn't change the fact that what happened to her is horribly tragic, and that somebody ideally would have gone out to help. But it also is not accurate that nobody helped in a different way.
Yeah. So what did you learn about the Comics Code Authority,
I learned that it existed. I think it's really interesting that it was self censorship as opposed to imposed censorship.
Yeah. And it was, again, you you heard those things. This was a degree of censorship that was just honoris another vocabulary word,
man we are we should just go take the essay tease for fun
challenge except Well, they even let us take. We can
take the series Actually, I don't know. Maybe we can I might not be able to because I already have a master's degree.
I have no idea. We can't even take like the GED together.
No, we both have high school diploma.
There's no way we can take standardized tests so
you can go take a Mensa exam.
Did they give you your scores? Can we compete?
I actually don't know if I can take a Mensa test because I took one already and I did not make it in. Alright so the holidays are just about over be safe on New Year's actually. This comes out on New Year's New Year's Eve the night before so be safe on New Year's. Again, there's Uber there's lift there are regular cabs there are friends make good choices. Yep. And we are available to you and always now you we are on say the stick good Facebook ad on the test pod. We are on Twitter at the test pod. We are on the test pod calm and We got the Instagram you can finally see
what our weird little cat goblins look like.
Yeah, so we are at on the test pod keeping it simple guys keep it simple just like me, sir Austin the simple
one very simple.
So we are on all of the socials. Now come find us. We have an email address that you can access most easily through our contact form on our website. But don't just find us on social media because I forget to check that email address regularly. You know, I thought there's someone in there who's offering us a bunch of money and I just haven't checked.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:30
This is Publishers Clearing House we're offering about $5 million. Hello, I am Nigerian prince.
Nigerian prince. He misses the purple rains down in Africa.
Yeah, that's a Purple Rain. Prince. Prince song rain and Africa is a different song. It's a portmanteau because Nigerian prince. Oh, maybe I'm not the simple one.
Maybe a brand is being eaten away because of all of the unhealthy food I've been eating. You got a lot of candy
he got me like this giant half pound Reese's cups. Alright, so we'll stop talking for now. It's already been a long one and kind of a heavy ones will have to go for some light stuff next week. Oh,
I've got an idea. And it's going to be making fun of the Jazz Age.
I thought you weren't making fun of the Jazz Age.
I'm always making fun of the jazz a goodness gracious.
Alright, well on that note,
Transcribed by https://otter.ai